Marketing Math with Brook Shepard
In this episode of Let’s Talk Marketing, Katya Allison sits down with Brook Shepard, founder and CEO of Mason Interactive, to explore what it really means to do data-driven marketing. From breaking down ROI myths to explaining why chasing efficiency can backfire, Brook offers a refreshing and practical take on the balance between performance, creativity, and strategy. Whether you're running a multimillion-dollar campaign or just getting your marketing off the ground, this conversation sheds light on the data decisions that truly drive growth—and the human side of leadership in marketing.
Takeaway 1: The Efficiency Trap: Why ROI Isn’t Everything
Brook warns that an obsession with ROI often leads brands to focus exclusively on existing customers—who are cheaper to convert—but at the expense of long-term growth. He points out that without a focus on net-new customer acquisition, companies risk falling into a "death spiral" of over-efficiency.
“You're going to be so efficient that you're going to efficient yourself right out of business.”
– Brook Shepard
From my perspective, this is a common pitfall in early-stage companies. ROI feels like a safety blanket—but it can blind you from planting the seeds for future growth. Like Brook, I believe in measuring both performance and potential.
Takeaway 2: Understanding the Halo Effect in Marketing
Brook uses a vivid example to explain the halo effect: while Meta ads might show a high cost per lead, their impact ripples into organic traffic and boosts Google campaign performance. His team even brought in a Columbia University statistician to quantify these effects for skeptical CFOs.
“Spend more on Meta, get more organic. Spend more on Meta, do better on Google.”
– Brook Shepard
Marketers often struggle to explain the indirect value of brand awareness or top-of-funnel efforts. Brook's approach of translating that into measurable, data-backed insights is a masterclass in speaking the C-suite’s language.
Takeaway 3: Clear Goals Win: Why “More” Isn’t a Strategy
One of Brook’s strongest points is that most brands fail to define specific customer acquisition goals. He contrasts this with his agency’s own internal planning—down to how many prospects they need to talk to monthly to grow by 33% annually.
“More is not a goal. A goal is: I want to increase sales by 10% a quarter.”
– Brook Shepard
This insight is gold for founders and CMOs alike. It’s not just about top-line revenue—knowing where new customers will come from, and how many you need, is the real growth engine. Strategy without specifics is just wishful thinking.
Key quotes
“You’re going to be so efficient that you're going to efficient yourself right out of business.”
“You can't Google something if you don't know what it is—that's why awareness matters.”
“Every client defines the data they want to see; it's our job to guide them toward what actually matters.
“Being around younger staff helps keep me current—I need to know what’s changing, fast.”
“Clients say it’s ‘off brand,’ but they have no style guide. It’s a feeling, which is fine—until it blocks growth.”
“More is not a goal. A goal is: I want to move 100,000 units by this date.”
“Marketing decisions need to be holistic. A single number rarely tells the whole story.”
